I came across an interesting forum topic yesterday where someone was asking whether the word "them" in Gen 1:25.
"So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
Does the word "them" mean just Adam and Eve, or does it mean many people. I figured there was a question that superseded this one: Is the story of Adam and Eve merely a metaphor for the fall of humanity, or is it an actual historic recounting of events?
It isn't something I know a lot about, but it is something that interests me (all Christian Theology does to some extent). So I started reading through Genesis to see what I could find.
As I was reading, I found it interesting that there are two separate stories of creation, that of Genesis 1 and that told in Gen 2-3. And there are so many holes in the story if one were to take it literally. Something just didn't sit right with me thinking that this story was to be read literally.
Who did Cain, Able, and Seth marry? Their sisters? If others were created alongside Adam and Eve, wouldn't the others still be perfect and in the Garden?
To me, it seems like the story is more of a metaphor, and less of a historical recounting of events. Though I think the Bible is full of metaphorical stories, and not always to be read literally.
I asked the question on my Facebook status whether people thought the story of Adam and Eve was a metaphor, or if it actually happened.
So a friend of mine chimed in with an answer that provided some great insight and knowledge. (And it was cool to have someone with education and knowledge on the subject far superior to mine, validate and support my position. :) )
The following is from my friend Tim who has a Ph.D in Biblical/Theological Studies.
"It is a mythological account intended to represent the universal human condition. There are several textual indicators to point the reader (both ancient and modern in this direction). For example, 'adam is the Hebrew word for "human" (not even "man" ... there is a separate word for gendered human distinctions) and is derivative from the Hebrew word for "ground/dirt" ('adamah). These are meant to be universal persons so that we can each see ourselves in them. Moreover, the Adam/Eve story is a part of the second creation account (Gen. 2-3) which differs significantly from the first account (Gen. 1). In the first account, the humans are the last creation (after plants/animals) whereas in the second account they are created before the plants/animals. The first account begins creation in a wet, chaotic environment (hovering above the waters) while the second account begins in a dry, barren, desert-like environment. Also, the words used for God (Gen. 1: 'el and Gen 2: yhwh)are different in the two stories. These stories are intended to communicate different truths about God and creation. Neither is intended to be "historical" in the sense we think of it (a renaissance and enlightenment imposition upon the biblical text). My use of the word "mythological" to describe the Genesis 2 narrative is not intended to say "false" but rather indicate the literary genre through which its truths may be communicated (who is God? and who are we?). By far the majority of both Protestant and Catholic biblical scholars would agree to the basic outlines of what I've described above."
Showing posts with label theology. Show all posts
Showing posts with label theology. Show all posts
Tuesday, November 17, 2009
Monday, September 21, 2009
School Sticker Shock!
So I got a bit of a shock yesterday when I looked into going back to school. I just want to go back part-time, 2 or 3 classes per semester, and finish my Theology degree so that I can go on to become a Pastor. Seeing as how September is quickly drawing to a close, I figured I'd start getting the details on applying for school and getting the ball rolling. Then I saw tuition costs. I'd looked at the University of Winnipeg (UofW), and Manitoba (UofM) in the past and tuition for a 3 credit course (standard) was just under $300 which was fine and I figured we could afford for me to take 2 classes come January.
Then I look at Canadian Mennonite University's tuition, $590 for a 3 credit hour course! That's double what it costs to do a degree at either of the other universities in town. So then I look a little closer at the other schools to see if I'm missing something. It turns out that while a 3 credit hour course in the Faculty of Arts is only $285, a 3 credt hour course in the Faculty of Theology is $585. Umm... what?!?! How does that work? The only people going into the Faculty of Theology are potential ministry candidates; people that aren't looking to make a lot of money. So why does it cost double to get a degree to go into ministry as it does to get a normal Arts or Science degree. And then seminary ends up being $900-1300 per class.
It was a bit of a kick in the nuts. So I'm figuring when it's all said and done, we'll be shelling out about $1500 for me to go back to school in January. Which is a good $500 more than we had planned on spending. I know we can make it work, and we'll just make some cuts in other areas. We, like most people, aren't always the greatest with our spending habits, but I like to think that we've really improved over the past couple of years.
So, I guess we'll make it work, it just really sucks. It'll cost me just as much to become a pastor as it would to become a doctor, and I'll make less than a third. Now I know people don't become pastors for the money, but that's a HUGE debtload to take on for a career path that pays a mere pittance in comparison to an equally costly education. No wonder there is a pastor shortage, not many people are going to accept a debtload like this for such little monetary pay off. It's not like it is buying me a ticket to Heaven; that's free and available to anyone.
Prayers would be greatly appreciated as we make some pretty big transitions in the next few months. Mama Bean is due in about 4 weeks, I'll be off work for 9 months starting December 1st, and I'm hoping to be taking a couple of classes starting in January. It's going to be a busy time, but I'm really looking forward to it all.
Then I look at Canadian Mennonite University's tuition, $590 for a 3 credit hour course! That's double what it costs to do a degree at either of the other universities in town. So then I look a little closer at the other schools to see if I'm missing something. It turns out that while a 3 credit hour course in the Faculty of Arts is only $285, a 3 credt hour course in the Faculty of Theology is $585. Umm... what?!?! How does that work? The only people going into the Faculty of Theology are potential ministry candidates; people that aren't looking to make a lot of money. So why does it cost double to get a degree to go into ministry as it does to get a normal Arts or Science degree. And then seminary ends up being $900-1300 per class.
It was a bit of a kick in the nuts. So I'm figuring when it's all said and done, we'll be shelling out about $1500 for me to go back to school in January. Which is a good $500 more than we had planned on spending. I know we can make it work, and we'll just make some cuts in other areas. We, like most people, aren't always the greatest with our spending habits, but I like to think that we've really improved over the past couple of years.
So, I guess we'll make it work, it just really sucks. It'll cost me just as much to become a pastor as it would to become a doctor, and I'll make less than a third. Now I know people don't become pastors for the money, but that's a HUGE debtload to take on for a career path that pays a mere pittance in comparison to an equally costly education. No wonder there is a pastor shortage, not many people are going to accept a debtload like this for such little monetary pay off. It's not like it is buying me a ticket to Heaven; that's free and available to anyone.
Prayers would be greatly appreciated as we make some pretty big transitions in the next few months. Mama Bean is due in about 4 weeks, I'll be off work for 9 months starting December 1st, and I'm hoping to be taking a couple of classes starting in January. It's going to be a busy time, but I'm really looking forward to it all.
Friday, January 02, 2009
A little Facebook fun
A friend of mine, lets call her Angela, is reading "The Shack" by William P. Young.
Angela posts on her Facebook wall that she "is halfway through the Shack and really enjoying it."
Someone pipes up that she heard it is "'new age-y'" and wonders what Angela thinks of it.
To which another person, lets call her Maggie, responds, "Watch out, it's tied to the emerging church. And for those who don't know, the emerging church is bad. Oh, and I found that out AFTER I read it. It was too weird for me."
( Seriously...? I know...but anyway, to continue.)
Being the shit disturber that I am, I respond with, "Yes, beware of the emerging church! It'll put crazy thoughts in your head and take you in theological directions you hadn't previously gone. ;)"
( Just joking around really; I'm kinda sarcastic like that, thus the wink emoticon.)
Maggie: "All emerging churches are disenchanted with traditional church forms and practices-but their ideas, theology, and goals are often radically different from each other. All seek to relate to a society inundated by postmodern thought. People today commonly believe that all truth is subjective. Either there is no absolute truth, and each individual decides what's "right" for themselves, or absolute truth may exist, but it's so filtered by each person's experience and cultural mindset and viewing it as the enemy, emerging-church members aim to engage it. The emerging movement thinks HOW a person lives is more important than WHAT they believe. Hope that helps. Ask me if your still confused. :)"
( She comes across as fairly intelligent, and has valid points that she clearly states. I can appreciate that. And for the most point, what she says is fairly true. It is her attitude that there is something wrong with this subject that incites me to respond. Well, that and I like stirring the pot. For the record, I did check with my friend Angela before responding, as it was on her wall, and her friend. I don’t know Maggie.)
Me: "600 years ago, a man named Luther came along and radically changed the face of Christianity. He brought Christ to the people. He took the power away from the Roman Catholic Church and gave it back to the people. This is what the emergent church is doing. It is taking the power away from the "insutitution of the church" and turning it back into a conversation with God. They are about changing the face of Christianity from a one-sided monologue to a conversation between many. It is about making the church accessible again. They want to move away from aggressive apologetics and confrontational evangelism, instead people the freemdom to discover the truth through conversation and relationships with the Christian community. Absolute Truth is still there. They aren't denying that, they are just changing the face of it."
(and because that is as much as you can put in a facebook wall comment)
Me: "They want people to discover this truth themselves. They want people to seek out God to find this Truth, instead of having some zealot cram it down their throat. The goal of Christianity isn't to go about living "the right way" so that we will go to Heaven, or so that on judgement day we will be spared eternal damnation. It's about creating a kingdom of heaven on earth, about living for the here and now, not in fear of the future. By creating this kingdom of heaven on earth, we are living in a way that will please God. Luther started a Christian revolution, the emergent church is continuing it."
(I am not sure if I would say I’m a member of the emergent church, thus using the work “They” as opposed to “we.” Part of me thinks that most churches today, outside of the high order churches, are “emergent churches.” I’d like to discuss this further with people though, because I’m not sure.)
Maggie: "Just another note on the emerging church thing; it is also categorized as "new voices" in some stores. Stay away from any "Liquid" or "Nooma" series DVD's. Also there is a childrens/youth curriculum company called "Youth Specialties" that's put out by the Zondervan company that some churches use for Sunday School that is also tied in with the ... Read Moreemerging church. And just a couple of authors that spew that crap are: Rob Bell, Shane Claiborne, Mark Driscoll, Doug Fields, Dan Kimball, Brian McLaren, Erwin McManus, and Donald Miller...... just to name a few. Jesus loves you!! ;)"
(Yes, Jesus does love me. He loves Universalists as well. ;) My reponses were written after she posted all of hers. She made a number of posts before I had time to properly respond, so things weren’t necessarily posted in this order, these were my responses to her posts that I posted on Angela’s wall.)
Maggie: "I just know that the emerging church is very ultra-sensory with big productions and stuff. What if you take it all away? Will people still want to go to that church? I think it's a shame when a church isn't about the people, but about a production or stimulating the mind and eyes ya know? And about absolute truth, well, what if I drove up in a ... Read Morered truck and you said "Well, what makes it red? What even makes it a truck? I see it differently." That in a nutshell is how the emerging church feels. They don't want to challenge anybody on what is ACTUAL truth because well, gee, everybody has a different perspective and opinions, and yadda, yadda. Whatever happened to the Bible and preaching IT'S absolute truths? Actions and concequences? Or reward! :)
As far as the shack goes, I just heard it was tied to the emerging church. I'm not entierely sure how. Maybe because Jesus and the trinity was portrayed as a fat black woman, a fruitty artsy fairy, and a grumpy old man."
(I just couldn’t believe that she would say something like “Stay away from any "Liquid" or "Nooma" series DVD's.” I was rendered speechless… I really had no idea how to respond to that. And saying that authors like “Rob Bell, Shane Claiborne, Mark Driscoll, Doug Fields, Dan Kimball, Brian McLaren, Erwin McManus, and Donald Miller” are “spewing crap?” Seriously…I was at a loss. It took me a good amount of time to just sit there and look past the ignorance and respond in a decent manner. Though as soon as I started writing about Tim LaHaye and the Left Behind series and had to delete a few paragraphs because I just started going off, which I was trying hard not to do. I find Rob Bell’s writing a little over the top, but I love what he has to say. Same with Brian McLaren. I saw him speak at CBC when I was there, and now own most of his books.)
Me: "Why would you want someone to stay away from things like the "Nooma" series and amazing visionaries like Rob Bell and Brian McLaren? That's like me going around saying things like, "Stay away from the Left Behind series, and authors like Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins because they propogate the idea of literal biblical interpretation." While I ... Read Moredo believe that, I wouldn't tell someone to stay away from it. People should be encouraged to check out all types of different ideas, be they something from Tim LaHaye or Brian McLaren. It is then up to them to determine what resonates with them, and why. This should cause people to reach out to God with questions, and thoughts. It invokes dialogue with both God as well as others in the Christian community. And in the end, isn't this what we want? A relationship with Christ?"
(the word “visionaries” to describe Rob Bell and Brian McLaren might have been a little sensationalist, but I thought it suited it. ;))
And there it stands. This all took place on Angela’s wall, who coincidentally didn’t, nor has she, said anything. I think she should. ;) I found it amusing that we just sort of hijacked her wall.
It was all just kind of surreal. I was trying really hard to stay concise and to the point, while laying out a decent rebuttal to her comments. It just kind of shocked me that someone would so adamantly oppose the emergent church. I've never come across someone like that...it was just so mind boggling. So I thought I'd have a little fun with it. I hope I haven't hurt her feelings or anything, or that she thinks I was attacking her, because that wasn't the intention. Do I come across like I am? (i honestly want to know, because if i do, i need to change the way I do things so that doesn't happen) I’m thinking I should send her a quick message on facebook letting her know it was all in fun and that I wasn’t attacking her personally.
What this whole thing really ended up doing, was reminding me how much I love this stuff. How much I love a little theological discussion with someone that isn’t a million miles over my head. I read some stuff, and follow some discussions and the points they bring up are stuff that would never cross my mind. And I understand there is a huge education gap there, and one day I will be there. Until that day however, I need to keep finding people to talk to and discuss things.
The time I spent living with Topher were great for that. I can’t count the number of times we sat around debating theology. Most times there were copious amounts of alcohol involved, but that was added to it. I’d often sit there thinking, “no, you are wrong” but not having the words to dispute his point. He has a degree in Religious Studies for Pete’s sake, but that just made me more interested in learning things for the next time we’d sit down. The chats with him helped strengthen my faith because he would challenge me. I wouldn’t know why I thought or believed certain things. So I’d find out so that I could tell him. So that I wouldn’t just sit there without the words to respond. I miss those days.
Angela posts on her Facebook wall that she "is halfway through the Shack and really enjoying it."
Someone pipes up that she heard it is "'new age-y'" and wonders what Angela thinks of it.
To which another person, lets call her Maggie, responds, "Watch out, it's tied to the emerging church. And for those who don't know, the emerging church is bad. Oh, and I found that out AFTER I read it. It was too weird for me."
( Seriously...? I know...but anyway, to continue.)
Being the shit disturber that I am, I respond with, "Yes, beware of the emerging church! It'll put crazy thoughts in your head and take you in theological directions you hadn't previously gone. ;)"
( Just joking around really; I'm kinda sarcastic like that, thus the wink emoticon.)
Maggie: "All emerging churches are disenchanted with traditional church forms and practices-but their ideas, theology, and goals are often radically different from each other. All seek to relate to a society inundated by postmodern thought. People today commonly believe that all truth is subjective. Either there is no absolute truth, and each individual decides what's "right" for themselves, or absolute truth may exist, but it's so filtered by each person's experience and cultural mindset and viewing it as the enemy, emerging-church members aim to engage it. The emerging movement thinks HOW a person lives is more important than WHAT they believe. Hope that helps. Ask me if your still confused. :)"
( She comes across as fairly intelligent, and has valid points that she clearly states. I can appreciate that. And for the most point, what she says is fairly true. It is her attitude that there is something wrong with this subject that incites me to respond. Well, that and I like stirring the pot. For the record, I did check with my friend Angela before responding, as it was on her wall, and her friend. I don’t know Maggie.)
Me: "600 years ago, a man named Luther came along and radically changed the face of Christianity. He brought Christ to the people. He took the power away from the Roman Catholic Church and gave it back to the people. This is what the emergent church is doing. It is taking the power away from the "insutitution of the church" and turning it back into a conversation with God. They are about changing the face of Christianity from a one-sided monologue to a conversation between many. It is about making the church accessible again. They want to move away from aggressive apologetics and confrontational evangelism, instead people the freemdom to discover the truth through conversation and relationships with the Christian community. Absolute Truth is still there. They aren't denying that, they are just changing the face of it."
(and because that is as much as you can put in a facebook wall comment)
Me: "They want people to discover this truth themselves. They want people to seek out God to find this Truth, instead of having some zealot cram it down their throat. The goal of Christianity isn't to go about living "the right way" so that we will go to Heaven, or so that on judgement day we will be spared eternal damnation. It's about creating a kingdom of heaven on earth, about living for the here and now, not in fear of the future. By creating this kingdom of heaven on earth, we are living in a way that will please God. Luther started a Christian revolution, the emergent church is continuing it."
(I am not sure if I would say I’m a member of the emergent church, thus using the work “They” as opposed to “we.” Part of me thinks that most churches today, outside of the high order churches, are “emergent churches.” I’d like to discuss this further with people though, because I’m not sure.)
Maggie: "Just another note on the emerging church thing; it is also categorized as "new voices" in some stores. Stay away from any "Liquid" or "Nooma" series DVD's. Also there is a childrens/youth curriculum company called "Youth Specialties" that's put out by the Zondervan company that some churches use for Sunday School that is also tied in with the ... Read Moreemerging church. And just a couple of authors that spew that crap are: Rob Bell, Shane Claiborne, Mark Driscoll, Doug Fields, Dan Kimball, Brian McLaren, Erwin McManus, and Donald Miller...... just to name a few. Jesus loves you!! ;)"
(Yes, Jesus does love me. He loves Universalists as well. ;) My reponses were written after she posted all of hers. She made a number of posts before I had time to properly respond, so things weren’t necessarily posted in this order, these were my responses to her posts that I posted on Angela’s wall.)
Maggie: "I just know that the emerging church is very ultra-sensory with big productions and stuff. What if you take it all away? Will people still want to go to that church? I think it's a shame when a church isn't about the people, but about a production or stimulating the mind and eyes ya know? And about absolute truth, well, what if I drove up in a ... Read Morered truck and you said "Well, what makes it red? What even makes it a truck? I see it differently." That in a nutshell is how the emerging church feels. They don't want to challenge anybody on what is ACTUAL truth because well, gee, everybody has a different perspective and opinions, and yadda, yadda. Whatever happened to the Bible and preaching IT'S absolute truths? Actions and concequences? Or reward! :)
As far as the shack goes, I just heard it was tied to the emerging church. I'm not entierely sure how. Maybe because Jesus and the trinity was portrayed as a fat black woman, a fruitty artsy fairy, and a grumpy old man."
(I just couldn’t believe that she would say something like “Stay away from any "Liquid" or "Nooma" series DVD's.” I was rendered speechless… I really had no idea how to respond to that. And saying that authors like “Rob Bell, Shane Claiborne, Mark Driscoll, Doug Fields, Dan Kimball, Brian McLaren, Erwin McManus, and Donald Miller” are “spewing crap?” Seriously…I was at a loss. It took me a good amount of time to just sit there and look past the ignorance and respond in a decent manner. Though as soon as I started writing about Tim LaHaye and the Left Behind series and had to delete a few paragraphs because I just started going off, which I was trying hard not to do. I find Rob Bell’s writing a little over the top, but I love what he has to say. Same with Brian McLaren. I saw him speak at CBC when I was there, and now own most of his books.)
Me: "Why would you want someone to stay away from things like the "Nooma" series and amazing visionaries like Rob Bell and Brian McLaren? That's like me going around saying things like, "Stay away from the Left Behind series, and authors like Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins because they propogate the idea of literal biblical interpretation." While I ... Read Moredo believe that, I wouldn't tell someone to stay away from it. People should be encouraged to check out all types of different ideas, be they something from Tim LaHaye or Brian McLaren. It is then up to them to determine what resonates with them, and why. This should cause people to reach out to God with questions, and thoughts. It invokes dialogue with both God as well as others in the Christian community. And in the end, isn't this what we want? A relationship with Christ?"
(the word “visionaries” to describe Rob Bell and Brian McLaren might have been a little sensationalist, but I thought it suited it. ;))
And there it stands. This all took place on Angela’s wall, who coincidentally didn’t, nor has she, said anything. I think she should. ;) I found it amusing that we just sort of hijacked her wall.
It was all just kind of surreal. I was trying really hard to stay concise and to the point, while laying out a decent rebuttal to her comments. It just kind of shocked me that someone would so adamantly oppose the emergent church. I've never come across someone like that...it was just so mind boggling. So I thought I'd have a little fun with it. I hope I haven't hurt her feelings or anything, or that she thinks I was attacking her, because that wasn't the intention. Do I come across like I am? (i honestly want to know, because if i do, i need to change the way I do things so that doesn't happen) I’m thinking I should send her a quick message on facebook letting her know it was all in fun and that I wasn’t attacking her personally.
What this whole thing really ended up doing, was reminding me how much I love this stuff. How much I love a little theological discussion with someone that isn’t a million miles over my head. I read some stuff, and follow some discussions and the points they bring up are stuff that would never cross my mind. And I understand there is a huge education gap there, and one day I will be there. Until that day however, I need to keep finding people to talk to and discuss things.
The time I spent living with Topher were great for that. I can’t count the number of times we sat around debating theology. Most times there were copious amounts of alcohol involved, but that was added to it. I’d often sit there thinking, “no, you are wrong” but not having the words to dispute his point. He has a degree in Religious Studies for Pete’s sake, but that just made me more interested in learning things for the next time we’d sit down. The chats with him helped strengthen my faith because he would challenge me. I wouldn’t know why I thought or believed certain things. So I’d find out so that I could tell him. So that I wouldn’t just sit there without the words to respond. I miss those days.
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